Welcome to In Site, a podcast from the Zion Canyon Mesa, a nascent arts and humanities residency center in Springdale, Utah, surrounded by Zion National Park.
One of the primary drivers for these podcasts is concern for our times. To paraphrase Yeats, the center feels besieged. So we’ll consider the many crux issues we face, with an eye towards how creative thinking can play a role. We will engage a wide spectrum of artists, writers, musicians and thought leaders, and hopefully enjoy the journey.
As our name implies, we also want to root firmly within our community, our home in southwest Utah on the Markagunt Plateau. We will give backstory and context for controversial, regional issues here in Utah. We’ll also try to act as an honest broker for dialogue, seemingly a lost art. But our concept of home also radiates out from here to the Colorado Plateau, the Intermountain West, the U.S. in general and on from there.
Our name sounds out four different ways, and we identify with each: to get it in sight, to gain insight, and perhaps to incite.
There is an additional aspect embedded in the idea of In Site that we will continue to explore: the intersection of vision and place. Very often an artist’s inspiration entwines with or emerges from their chosen landscape. At times they are simply one in the same. We believe creativity is crucial to imagining the future we want to see, especially in these uncertain times, and for us to nurture this creativity, perhaps we should examine and embrace this relationship more deeply.
Our episodes can be found below, and wherever you get your podcasts.
Stay safe.
- The Zion Canyon Mesa
“Wisdom in Patience” - The Re-emergence of Glen Canyon
As the drought continues and water levels continue to drop, we decided to go have a look. We told our board about the idea and it turns out that board member Catherine Smith rafted the Colorado River through Glen Canyon as a teenager in 1955. We were so pleased that she insisted on coming along.
The level when we took our trip in May was only 1/4 full at 3523 feet – just 33 feet above the minimum power pool of 3,490 feet, or where there’s not enough water to run the power generators. Dead pool is 120 feet lower, at 3,370 feet.
But the big picture is that Lake Powell is really only of value to generate power, tourist economy aside. So if it drops below minimum power pool, then evaporation and rock-saturation coefficients start to play in. So, is Lake Powell doomed? And is Glen Canyon going to return?
“Steer the Wind:” Audrey Tang is Saving the World with Direct Digital Democracy
For anyone concerned about the current global state of Democracy, which should be everyone, Audrey Tang, Taiwan’s Digital Minister, may be our greatest hope:
“I’m not here to make citizens transparent to government, I’m here to make government transparent to citizens.”
She has flipped Big Brother, proving that this very same unprecedented internet connectivity can be harnessed to cultivate and manifest the very best of us as well — connecting instead of isolating, confirming truths instead of spreading lies, distributing power instead of consolidating it.
Helper, Utah and the Mysteries of Community: Part 3 "The Ineffable Authentic"
You’ll hear every one of the people I talk to in this episode, Gary DeVincent, Jaron Anderson, and Shallee Johanssen, mention in their own words that Helper lacks pretense, that it feels authentic, and it’s that feeling of authenticity that is drawing them to Helper.
But what happens when authenticity is ultimately obtained? When it becomes the commodity? Take a listen to find out if Helper can hang on to whatever it is that makes it so special, as the town continues to be revitalized.
We ask these questions and more as a way to continue exploring the mysteries of what brings together and then maintains that elusive sense of community. Sure, we're talking specifically about Helper, interesting enough in itself. But we're also examining Helper in light of these broader questions. At the end of this podcast, Logan and Ben will consider what these interviewees have said to see if Helper offers itself as a microcosm to understand the slippery nature of community.
Genders: The Story of Us All - Kathryn Bond Stockton
In her new book Gender(s), a new volume in the MIT Press Essential Knowledge series, Kathryn Bond Stockton, Inagural Dean of the University of Utah’s “School for Cultural and Social Tranformation,” explores the fascinating, fraught, intimate, morphing matter of gender. Stockton argues for gender's strangeness, no matter how normal the concept seems; gender is queer for everyone, she claims, even when it's played quite straight. And she explains how race and money dramatically shape everybody's gender, even in sometimes surprising ways. Playful but serious, erudite and witty, Stockton marshals an impressive array of exhibits to consider, including dolls and their new gendering, the thrust of Jane Austen and Lil Nas X, gender identities according to women's colleges, gay and transgender ballroom scenes, and much more.
Helper, Utah and the Mysteries of Community:Part 2 “Art as Caring”
In this episode, you will hear how Dave Dornan’s artwork is inseparable from Helper’s story. He’s not interested in finding the beauty in things that are decidedly valuable but in finding “the beauty in something that could become valuable.” Through painting an old useless carburetor he breathes new life into it. Through picking and painting a rose from Chris Diamanti’s incredible rose garden, he turns the retired miner’s caring into an icon through his own form of caring: art. And this is the story of Helper, Utah; caring begets caring.
Helper, Utah and the Mysteries of Community: Part 1 “Utah’s Melting Pot”
Helper, Utah was founded as a “helper engine” town in 1881. Here trains would pick up an extra engine to help them up the steep, relentless grade of Price Canyon and over Soldier Summit. At the beginning of the 20th century, Helper was a booming railroading and coal mining community. It was also the most diverse place in Utah, with 27 different languages spoken in the town. Coal later diminished in value, and eventually started to run out, and the community has been forced to find a new way. From flower-planting to the inception of an annual arts festival, to the revitalization of Main Street’s historic buildings, Helper is finding ways to hold onto its story, while simultaneously moving forward with an entirely new economy, one based on the arts and tourism.
Listen to find out what is contributing to the apparent ease and speed with which Helper's economic shift is taking place. Is it Helper's union history? The diversity? Could the name Helper play some role here? Does economic revitalization just take a few individuals who care? How important is Helper's story? Are new residents and old-timers alike on board with these changes? Is it the creation of opportunity, gentrification, or both? What does the future hold for Helper, Utah?
Variant: A Celebration at Modern West Fine Art
The American West somehow still maintains its foothold in the global subconscious, its raw and alluring brew of archetypes, wide-open dreamscapes of canyons and mountains, cowboys and Indians, grizzly bears and buffalo. As such, quote/unquote “Western Art” continues to make coin by milking these fantasies.
But of course, that West is long gone, if it ever really existed. What remains? What really happened here? Where are we going? What is happening to the land, the indigenous peoples, the scant and ever-diminishing waters? Who and where are the voices that will lead us forward?
The Thirteen Moons of Henry Real Bird
Henry was born in 1948 and raised on the Crow Indian Reservation; he spoke only Crow until entering first grade. Those cultural rhythms and traditions remain the primary influence on his poetry. He earned his Master’s in Education and has taught everything from kindergarten, 4H and Head Start to serving as president of Little Big Horn College. He rode bucking broncs in rodeos until he busted his hip, which somehow led him to poetry. He has written six anthologies, four poetry collections, and twelve children’s books, which he also illustrated. He served as Montana’s Poet Laureate from 2009 to 2011, was named the 2011-2012 Academy of Western Artists Cowboy Poet of the Year, and his poetry collection “Horse Tracks” was named 2011 Poetry Book of the Year by the High Plains Book Awards.
Henry lives on his ranch along Yellow Leggins Creek in the Wolf Teeth Mountains: "Now I'm raising bucking horses, writing, and dreaming."
The Anthropology of Truth Part 1 - The Seductions of Clarity: Philosophy for a Flattened World with Thi Nguyen
This podcast is the first of a series on “The Anthropology of Truth.” Today in the U.S., truth, facts and science are under unprecedented assault. What is happening? Is this just old news for us, perhaps forever stuck in Plato’s Cave, mesmerized by the shadows? Or is there something about our high tech and social media landscapes that act as accelerants and multipliers of our flaws? Throughout this series we’ll explore different aspects of the Truth to see if we can figure something out. We can’t think of a better way to start laying these issues on the table than with the philosopher Thi Nguyen.
With a solid background in classic Western Philosophy, Thi unleashes Descartes’ “Evil Demon” onto our current tech and social media landscape, then considers the resulting mayhem. The Demon disrupts our lines of trust, and at every turn offers us a clearer, easier but flattened interpretation of reality. Thi brings the current assault on truth, facts and science into focus by combining the dynamics of echo chambers, “moral outrage porn,” game theory and the hazards of quantifying complex environments.
The Power of Music: Mark Johnson and Playing for Change
It’s impossible. A horn section in Burkina Faso backs a string quartet in Lyon, France, together with guitarists in Nepal and Madrid while a choir in Manila supports the singer in Haiti and an African kora soloist, and we aren’t halfway through the video. Everyone plays outside, in city streets, courtyards, in front of temples, in marketplaces, train yards, beaches, jungles and deserts, visuals that immediately impart a compelling sense of that place. Each player brings nuances from their own musical culture, resulting in a fresh and distinct feel. One could write a book just about these rhythmic confluences. As a Playing For Change Foundation school teacher observed, “it’s where all cultural diversities collide into one beautiful harmony.”
Informed by years of recording studio experience and powered by his love and utter faith in music, Mark Johnson pursued his vision of traveling songs around the world to bring people together. Along with co-founder Whitney Kroenke Silverstein, they’ve grown a single such video, “Stand By Me,” into an international movement. It’s a new art form, a sound engineer’s vision. And in this moment that finds us isolated by Covid and wounded by the toxins coursing through our social media, they prove that such technology can also unite through the intimacy and immediacy of music.
A Conversation about Practice with Kim Stafford and Teresa Jordan
Join Teresa Jordan and Kim Stafford in an ongoing conversation about practice. They talk about the benefits of cultivating a daily practice, not just for the purpose of becoming a better artist or writer, but also because it can improve one’s life. As Kim puts it, you may not write something good every day, but if you write every day “it will be a better day.”
"The Madness of Disassociation" - Craig Childs
In this episode, Craig joins us from the front porch of his home in western Colorado, with snow flakes swirling around him and ravens croaking in the junipers. He talks about how stories are not the place but show the shape of a place. He shares several examples of how stories tend to repeat in the same places over and over again simply because of the geology, or other mysterious (but possibly simple) factors science hasn’t yet caught up to. We decided to save ghost stories for another time.
Today we face many obstacles that keep us from connecting deeply to place. We touch on social media, the internet, and other things that can remove us further and further from the land. This removal results in dissociation, Craig says. “We won’t remain dissociated as a species and survive,” he continues, “because then you don’t care about anything.”
We discuss the conundrum of being descendants of white colonizers, while at the same time being rooted to the places where fate has deposited us. Craig believes that we have a responsibility to give back to these places and their people who have given so much to us. Much of his work is an effort to do this. “I’ll be dead and gone before I ever really figure out what needs to be fed back to this place,” he says. “But at least I can get close, at least I can do my best.”
Is the Water Wet? - Lake Powell Pipeline Part 3 with Jane Whalen
Having created historical context for the pipeline in two previous podcasts, In Site now explores the pipeline itself. Jane Whalen, board member of Conserve Southwest Utah and Coordinator of the Lake Powell Pipeline Coalition, was the primary architect of their collective, incredibly thorough and detailed one hundred and eighty-six page objection to the pipeline (see link below). Quite simply, nobody involved with the pipeline understands it better than Jane.
American Zion - Betsy Gaines Quammen Interview
"This book is like a skeleton key, unlocking so many complicated, and largely unquestioned, myths of the West." —ANNE HELEN PETERSEN, BuzzFeed News
Betsy’s conservation work in Mongolia with Buddhist monks on fisheries and in Bhutan for snow leopards centered on finding common ground between religion’s ancient roots and the modern precepts of conservation. After continuing such work with Muslim, Jewish and Christian leaders in the U.S., she was drawn to the idea of exploring these possibilities with a uniquely American, relatively recent religion, Mormonism. Writing her PhD dissertation on the early, successful collaboration of the federal government and LDS leaders to create Zion National Park in 1919 led her to explore the Mormon principles emerging in current public land battles. She discovered a heady, distinctly American brew that sits of the intersection of religion and prophesy in Mormonism and cowboy mythology. This culminates in the emerging militia movement and the Bundy’s belief that the U.S. Constitution is sacred text, that their public lands crusade is divinely inspired and those who oppose them are not just wrong but evil.
Betsy Gaines Quammen is interviewed by Zion Canyon Mesa board member Kirsten Allen. Kirsten is Co-Founder, Publisher and Executive Director of Torrey House Press, where American Zion was published this March.
Daniel Kemmis Interview - Citizens Uniting to Restore our Democracy
Today we talk with Daniel Kemmis. Daniel studied both philosophy and political science, and names Plato, Rousseau, Jefferson, and Gandhi as his primary influences. He was Minority Leader and Speaker of the House in the Montana State Legislature during the ‘80s, when the Sagebrush Rebellion was at its height. Later, he served as Mayor of Missoula. The intense dysfunction of those times, together with the fiercely contested land issues, inspired Kemmis to write the seminal book Community and the Politics of Place, and develop the Kemmis method for finding compromise.
Photography as Medicine - Russel Albert Daniels Interview
The Spanish enslavement of Indigenous peoples across the Southwest was an immense market in humans, second only to that of African Americans. Severed from their lands and cultures, how did some of them create a path forward? Who are the Genízaro? How can Catholicism and Indigenous traditions coexist, perhaps even synergize, in one community? And how can photography act as medicine?
Today we talk with documentary photographer Russel Albert Daniels. He begins with the incredible story of his great great Grandmother Rose, who was captured from her Diné homeland by a band of Utes and sold to a Mormon settler in the Uinta Basin. We will talk about how this story led Russel to the Genízaro Pueblo of Abiquiú in northern New Mexico. This project titled "The Genízaro Pueblo of Abiquiú" is in collaboration with the Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian and can be viewed here. It's Part One of Russel's series exploring Native American slavery in the Southwest.
Richard Grant Interview - The Deepest South of All: True Stories from Natchez, Mississippi
Here we explore the ongoing repercussions of slavery, observed through the microcosm of Natchez, Mississippi, with Richard Grant, in his fifth book “The Deepest South of All.” Moving from England to Mississippi, Richard brings this distinct perspective and keen, compassionate eye to try to understand the “sleight of mind” that America still maintains about our greatest original sin. In Natchez, he found a town that both studiously maintains its Confederate “Gone with the Wind” mythology but also elected a gay black man for mayor with 91% of the vote. In its time, it was the site of both the second largest slave market in the U.S. and the most millionaires per capita; of course, those two are directly related.
Richard never intended to be a writer; we talk at first about his path from England to becoming a New York Times best-selling author. Then we address the multi-layered, deeply human complexities that enable both slavery and collective forgetfulness, and its ramifications for today. In this moment of Black Lives Matter and an America in perhaps our most disturbing identity crises since the Civil War, Richard’s insights couldn’t be more timely.
Is the Water Wet? - Lake Powell Pipeline Part 2 with Eric Kuhn
This is the second podcast in the Lake Powell Pipeline series, offering a historical perspective on water law in the West. It picks up at the ill-fated Colorado River Compact of 1922 and brings us to the present day, setting the stage for examining the pipeline itself in the next podcast. Eric Kuhn is the co-author of Science be Dammed: How Ignoring Inconvenient Science Drained the Colorado River. He was General Manager of the Colorado River Conservation District (CRCD) for twenty-two years. In the second part of our series on the Lake Powell Pipeline, Eric digs into how politicians ignored drought data to create the Compact, and how that intentional myopia continued for almost a century. Today, the entire basin must finally reckon with what has been true all along; that the originally allocated water just is not there. He busts two foundational myths along the way, one about the science and data, and the other about water use. He then situates the Lake Powell Pipeline (LPP) into the present moment of truth, setting the stage for our next, perhaps final podcast about the LPP itself.
Barry Lopez - “What Do I Mean By My Life?”
Barry Lopez is interviewed by Professor Jim Aton. He gives a retrospective, wide-ranging discourse on, among other things, nature writing as a metaphor for illuminating complex issues, advice for young writers, the role of the storyteller and the many facets of education and service. He reflects on his (and our) inexhaustible relationship with landscape to finally ask: “what do you think?”
Is The Water Wet? - Lake Powell Pipeline Part 1 with Greg Smoak
This is Part One of a three-part series on the proposed Lake Powell Pipeline (LPP). The first two podcasts explore the historical roots of the complex issues underpinning the pipeline proper. Here, Historian Greg Smoak joins us to discuss the origins of water law in the West, beginning with, appropriately enough, the lake’s namesake John Wesley Powell, and his populist perspective on how water in this arid region might be equitably managed. Professor Smoak is a Professor of History at the University of Utah and the director of the American West Center. He’s the author of many articles and essays on various American west topics including water rights, Native American law, environmental policy, and American Indian policy among other things. He’s the author of the book Ghost Dances and Identity: Prophetic Religion and American Indian Ethnogenesis in the Nineteenth Century.
About Us
Credits
Tile: detail of Michael Plyler photograph “Hoodoo Bonsai”
Banner photo by Ben Kilbourne
Theme and Transition Music: The Observatory
Ben Kilbourne - Programming Director/Assistant Producer/Marketing
Logan Hebner - Executive Producer/Host
Thanks
We would like to thank the Town of Springdale, the O.C. Tanner Foundation, SUU Tanner Center for Human Values, Washington County RAP Commission, Utah Humanities, Paul Barker, Springhill Suites, The George S. and Dolores Doré Eccles Foundation, and Greater Zion Tourism Board. We could not do this without your support. Thank you.
“The Crucible of Friendship:" a conversation between old friends, the novelist / biographer / essayist Judith Freeman the writer / artist Teresa Jordan
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According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a friend is “one joined to another in mutual benevolence and intimacy. Not ordinarily applied to lovers or relatives…a boon companion.” It first appears in “Beowolf” in 1018 A.D. as “freondum.” Though the opposite of “fiend,” both words root in the same Germanic word soup for “love” and “hate,” so therefore inextricably intertwined.
Here, two old friends, Teresa Jordan and Judith Freeman, both remarkable and accomplished writers and artists, born and bred in the American West, examine their own enduring relationship through the lens of Judith’s latest novel, the incisive, insightful, at times ruthless “MacArthur Park.” The novel’s core finds two older women, both accomplished writers and artists, born and bred in the American West, attempting to re-kindle their lifelong friendship after intimate convolutions blew them apart. Spoiler alert: marrying the same man may become a problem. No, not Teresa and Judith; her characters Verna and Jolene as they road trip across the West towards some notion of their shared childhood. What destroys friendships? Can good intentions alone heal those implosive moments of toxic intimacy almost inevitable in friendships? Who here has not lost a friend?